Religion and Respect

[stargirl]

Firstly an intro- I'm new to the MB, I'm Abby and I'm in England. I've been an NC fan for about 10 months now, and had the pleasure of seeing them play an amazing set at the Borderline in London last May.

Now I was really pleased to come across this fansite because I love the communities that can be built around a band message board, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you all.

However, as I read the 'Seek Him' thread my heart sank. I have had experiences on other message boards that have a vocal and devout Christian memberships, that I cannot call positive.

I am a very open-minded and liberal person with a lifestyle and friends that reflect that, but I have found some boards hostile to my beliefs and opinions because they are not Christian, and as a result I become involved in debates as to pro-choice/pro-life, evolution and other political issues. Debates which I feel destroy the community atmosphere due to the extremeties of opinion held, and the phrasing used by some to express themselves.

Now I have never entered lightly into them, and only become involved when I feel that the views presented and the extreme language they are phrased in could be damaging to younger and impressionable members, or if 'ganging up' is occuring.

I think that religious discussion and political debate can be good parts of an online community, however only when in a defined thread so that they may not infringe on other discussion.

The agreement we signed before becoming memebers asked us to refrain from 'hateful' language. I know that a lot of Christian beliefs of course are not hateful, however making statements like 'Abortion is homicide' creates an extremely uncomfortable environment for non-christian board members-
You are calling me a murderer. Please think about how that feels when I am here to be a part of a music based community, to chat and meet people who share my love of good music.

What I am proposing is that dedicated Religion and Politics threads be established so that members of all denominations and beliefs can feel that general discussion will not make them feel sidelined, attacked or otherwise unwanted. Debate on sensitive issues then can occur in a thread where members are prepared for things to get a little passionate, unavoidable when we're talking about values people hold very dear.

I don't think this is unreasonable, what I am trying to do is avoid the divisions that can develop from posting your beliefs without first considering the feelings of those that may not hold them. If a seperate thread cannot be made then please just show consideration in posting: I would hope that you want this community to be as inclusive and welcoming as possible.

Thankyou,
Abby

[jaceyhomen]

Stargirl Welcome to the board and thank you for your very, very thoughtful post.

I'm hoping that perhaps our moderators will step in and remind everyone of the importance, on this board or any board, of tolerance and respect for each other's religious or political beliefs. And perhaps the best way to show that tolerance is to refrain from trying to equate NC's music to their religion.

I personally don't think a discussion of Christianity or any other religion has a place on a site dedicated to a band of musicians. The fact that SS&C are Christians is their own personal choice and has nothing to do with fingering strings. All religions preach love, all have a moral code. And SS&C are, like most of us, good people. What we celebrate here is not their goodness, but their awesome musical talent.

Again, welcome and please keep posting!

Jacey

[oogabooga]

Welcome stargirl :)

I think that I am probably what started the discussion on the seek him thread and I am dissappointed in myself for starting part of the abortion topic, but I am not upset with my answers and I think in general everyone has been very respectful about it. I agree with you. I love Bebo Norman, however I do not go on the boards there because I believe that there is such negativity and closemindedness.

all of that said. I do not think there is anything wrong with people discussing such things such as abortion or death penalty in the Off-topic as long as they are respectful. I think it is a lovely idea to have topics designated to specific religions etc...but I am afraid that by doing so we might create more of a tear between the groups. I do not think it would be appropriate to discuss religion in the General Discussion, but maybe if it was clearlystated within the title. The title of my original post was seek Him which I thought designated it as having a christian topic. Personally I doubt I would participate in much of it because I personally don't like to discuss topics that I feel strongly about with people I don't really know. I am sorry that I in anyway started this, because I would much rather just talk about how much I love nickel creek :)

I am sorry if that didn't make much sense. I guess what I am trying to say is that I agree with you in that we all need to treat eachother with respect. If we are able to do that maybe it won't become an issue. I am sorry if you were in anyway offended by what I have said and I don't think that anyone would have purposely intended to hurt another creekster's feelings.

Again, welcome, and what a great first post!!! :)
Have a nice day,
Katy

[Smodger]

Wise words Abby.

I would just like to add that I'm sure that NC fans represent many different faiths and stand points, and we should all remember that. I understand that the band are Christian and that is fine by me, I happen not to share their faith but don't mind observing spirituality in their music. While it's inevitable that their faith should be discussed on the boards, I don't think that this is an appropriate place for such sensitive issues as abortion and the death penalty - lets focus on the music please, isn't that why we all came here in the first place?

Helen.

[stargirl]

Thanks for the positive response guys, its great that we all understand each other.

Just to develop what I said previously: I propose a general 'Religion' and/or 'Politics' thread, not segregated ones according to faith, Katy.

I understand that to many, the faith aspect is an important part of what draws people to NC's music- that's why I don't think it would be right to deny those people a forum for discussion. The discussion of the 'Seek Him' topic is an example of this- spirituality is a part of people's interpretation of the music.

This is the kind of topic that would then be freely discussed in the 'Religion' thread- it could be for spiritual aspect to the music, or personal religious issues, however, in keeping these issues seperate from the general 'Off Topic' thread, they would not be imposing a religious tone on those who did not want to participate.

Personally I enjoy religious and political debate in their moderation, and would stop by any such dedicated threads frequently to get your perspectives. However, I would enter the threads knowing that the beliefs expressed there may be a tad offensive to lil' old liberal moi :) But that would be my choice, and it would not effect my enjoyment of the rest of the board because I made a choice to enter that 'space'. It's when religious statements spill over into other topics that people begin to feel marginalised, something I hope we all want to avoid.

Thanks
Abby

[oogabooga]

Well conservative moi agrees with you whole heartedly :) I don't think any of us want to see the division that can be found on other boards. Maybe we should p.m. a moderator?

Like I said before, I personally don't like to discuss religion, politics etc.. in depth online, because I can take it too personally(meaning that I can be hurt unintentionally and I obsess over possibly hurting someone else's feelings). Plus often the intended tone can be very different than the impression the words make upon the screen. Despite this, I do manage to get myself into trouble by being too inquisitive and I believe this is an exmple of that. If you are able to contact chip, Matt, etc.. let us know how it goes :)


Katy

[JoshM17]

It seems that I'm sort of the cause for the discussion. I don't mind it, because I feel strongly about what I said.

I think religion and politics can be discussed here, because eveybody seems to be pretty open-minded. And, if they are open-minded, then they would have no problem with hearing other people's views, would they?

I'm not going to change my signature, because I believe it speaks the truth, and if anybody wants to get into a further discussion about that, I am more than open for a friendly discussion elsewhere. :)

I think we'll all be fine, disagreements and all.

Well, I've put in my 2 cents. Have a great day everybody :)

God Bless

~Josh

[Bluespaz]

i think that since it is our right to freedom of speech, press, and religion, we should exhaust and take advantage of it by meaning what we say and saying what we believe in. i'm sorry if i have offended you in any way, but i think that abortion is killing too, and i have no intentions of creating a hostile enviornment...[think]

[Chip]

I doubt that we'll create a religion and politics discussion section, since religion and politics are pretty much off-topic for a forum about nickel creek, and can therefore appropriately go in the off topic section.

I do think, however, that people should tread lightly on those issues. Highly charged, difficult to debate, and typically just cause a bunch of controversy/arguments/flaming. But if it can be done with courtesy and respect and without bickering, we will have no problem with it.

Since the band all have such strong Christian beliefs, some discussion is on topic -- as it relates to the band -- and I think as long as people can be openminded, it will be fine.

[J. Marie Hall]

Originally posted by jaceyhomen

I'm hoping that perhaps our moderators will step in and remind everyone of the importance, on this board or any board, of tolerance and respect for each other's religious or political beliefs. And perhaps the best way to show that tolerance is to refrain from trying to equate NC's music to their religion.

I personally don't think a discussion of Christianity or any other religion has a place on a site dedicated to a band of musicians. The fact that SS&C are Christians is their own personal choice and has nothing to do with fingering strings...

Jacey [/B]

--->i totally disagree with ya here. lyrically, certain songs might have a lot to do with it, and if we exclude those possibilities when we are talking about their songs, we might be opting for a very closed-minded view of the music. granted, that doesn't mean this is the hub of evangelical christianity :)

i'm glad the for the variety here and in other circles where there is discussion. it provides a richness not easily touched in homogenous groups. surely being respectful is very important though. i wouldn't embrace the word tolerance though. it implies that we'll just put up with each other :) i kinda hope it can be a little more proactive than that with respect in terms of preserving each other's dignity.

my two cents,
j. marie

[jaceyhomen]

J Marie Thanks for your post and welcome to the board!

We definitely disagree, but disagreements (if kept civil!) can be stimulating and informative. Often, however, disagreements on religious issues become, in any setting, a little too stimulating...and I wouldn't want to see that happen on this board.

I really don't think a discussion of religious/moral issues enhances our appreciation and enjoyment of Nickel Creek's talents. And if you feel the need to pursue a religious or moral point with a poster....take it to e-mail!

Cheers,
Jacey

[NCFan4Ever]

Originally posted by stargirl
I know that a lot of Christian beliefs of course are not hateful, however making statements like 'Abortion is homicide' creates an extremely uncomfortable environment for non-christian board members-
You are calling me a murderer.

I agree with you there Abby! And welcome to the boards!

[kokomo88]

he didn't exacly call her a murderer.

To Christians/Catholics, abortion is murder, It's our belief, and while it might make you uncomfortable, it is a belief and part of our religion....He didn't call her a murderer. He stated a fact.

Not meaning to cause any more arguments.....:D

[Taipan]

Has there actually been an argument about religion on the boards? I can't remember one at all. I personally read all the religious topics because I take RS and find the whole thing interesting and from what I've seen everybody respects eachother and I read your opinions, which I respect, and think okay, I disagree with that, but it's their opinion and that's fine and move on, I don't see the need to object or argue. I think we all do the same thing so you don't need to worry about being victimised because of your beliefs, in fact I think they'll be welcomed if you chose to express them. Welcome!

[NCFan4Ever]

HEY--I am a Christian. But I am also pro-choice. My being pro-choice has nothing to do with how I personally feel about abortion. I just think that the government has NO right to make abortion illegal. Because just because I share the Christian beliefs and values, doesn't mean that I think everyone else has to too.

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.

[J. Marie Hall]

Originally posted by NCFan4Ever
HEY--I am a Christian. But I am also pro-choice. My being pro-choice has nothing to do with how I personally feel about abortion. I just think that the government has NO right to make abortion illegal. Because just because I share the Christian beliefs and values, doesn't mean that I think everyone else has to too.

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.

hi, melanie and list!

thanks for bringing up the political parts of the issue. i have christian friends who, like you, are pro-choice in the gov’t arena for the same reason. but i question their logic, and here’s why: these are (and yet aren’t) two separable frames.

that those playing house in our nation’s leadership cannot agree on when life begins is logical here in this old earth. i don’t think we’ll necessarily come to the holy hill here and now…while we’ve made advances (i.e. slavery), i don’t believe in world peace as a pre-second coming reality.

but that’s another topic.

i question my friends’ logic b/c to say that the gov’t has nothing to do with carrying out social contract (the balance of individual liberties and the communal good/protection/safety) makes no sense. we say they shouldn’t legislate morality…okay, but morality is sometimes related to the social mores/norms that uphold this balance. the two will never be entirely divorced. i don’t think ayn rand will be rolling over in her grave any time in the near future.

for some penning laws, the pro-life ones protect life as much as anti-murder ones. for a lot of us, it’s an issue of public safety. i think the stats say that either my generation or the one following is missing one of its thirds. yikes! b/c of the potential dangers to life (whether you’re a decidedly open person or notJ--if we’re truly that open we have to admit the possibility that it’s murder as easily as that it isn’t) help me draw the conclusion that gov’t has a place in this part of the individual’s life.

but i also say “yikes!” to the gov’t or a person trying to carry out true judgment—i think, like you, that it’s only god’s place. however, a gov’t producing legislation that works to protect a life (if we could only get that straight!!!J) isn’t the equivalent.

as being careful is at a premium here! J, i will carefully duck and say that i really enjoy such discussion and respect you, no matter what your perspective. your (and anyone’s) life and dignity are precious (like any fetus i’d want to protect); thus i will tread carefully.

-j. marie

[Chip]

Hey, folks....

At the risk of being labeled a censor, I think it would be best if we avoid this line of discussion.

A lot of people have very strong views on both sides. Both sides have strong arguments that have validity. Neither side is likely to convince the other.

It's a recipe for difficulty and a lot of emotional stuff, and Matt and I would strongly prefer that we simply avoid this topic for that reason.

If you must discuss it, please take it to private email

Thanks much!!

[NCFan4Ever]

I understand what you are saying Chip!

[jaceyhomen]

Chip

Amen.

Jacey